niteHawk’s Martin Mini-Block vs Turtle Cocker Conversions thoughts:

I promised I'd do a short comparison on the Turtle and Martin cocker conversions, so this is it. This will NOT cover how either shoots - bottom line is that with the same parts, the markers will shoot the same. What I am trying to help people decide is which body conversion is right for them.

Since coming on the scene, people have been asking the question which is better, or most bang for your buck. Since I had a few bodies lying around, I figured what the hey, and send them out to see what I got back. Since I had a few additional things done (extra annodised pieces, etc, I will not discuss price either. that can be found in talking to either guy, and through thier websites - www.turtlecockers.com and www.martinpaintball.com)

--TURTLE COCKER--

I sent out one of Doc Nickel's Surplus automated cocking bodies out to Bob Long for the Turtle conversion on 09/19/03. I included a few other parts to have match anodized as well. I received back the body on 11/27/03, so about 10weeks from the time I sent it off to the time I received it back. In that time, Bob responded to my emails rather quickly, and was more than happy to send out a replacement turtle valve when the one I had turned out to be defective.

The machining on the body was well done. No chattering marks. Notice that there is no additional milling done on the body besides the conversion itself (the slots you see on the upper tubes, are leftover from the original body). In places that I would look for faults (ex. where the fake pump arm slots were cut into for the conversion) were great, showing no problems whatsoever. Simple and effective. However the Anno leaves a lot to be desired - as you can see in the pics, the is what I would call "pooling" in it, in several places on the body and other parts I had anodized. It isn't noticeable from a distance, but it isn't perfect.

The back block is black delrin, and structurally sound. It does not look as though it will strip, although until I have some more time to cycle it, I do not know. It is a bit "chunky" in looks, it has a second "lip" that is used to help the block "ride" on the back of the gun, and keep it centered.

The Pump arm that was sent with the body is the standard stainless variety, cut down and rethreaded. Note that it is sized for a mini-length body

The pullpin is stainless, milled down to reduce as much weight as possible, and includes a delrin top to further reduce weight.

The bolt is your standard angled in port, with a large exit opening. The input is smaller than the Martin, but the output opening is huge on it, leaving almost no excess material to the edges. The bolt fits the upper chamber a tad loosely - not badly undersized, but it moves very easily through the bolt chamber.

--Martin Cocker Body--

I sent Martin a stock '02 cocker body in black at about the same time (I don't have the exact dates, as we went between email and PMs on Paintball Nation) 09/19/03. I received it back on 02/09/04, about 20wks. The delay was not in the machining, but in the wait for the annodiser - they were having problems with the color I wanted, and in the end I went with another color. Going by conversations with Jordan, it was machined by 10/09. Throughout the entire ordeal, Jordan was quick to respond to my inquiries, and was nothing short of apologetic about the wait for the anno. I would also point out that he did offer restitution for the delay, in terms of refunding part of my initial fee, as he went pass the estimate of time.

The machining on this body was very well done; the cuts were smooth, with no machining marks. A surprise to me was the additional milling that was done to the gun for the conversion. The top of the back tube, where the back block rides, is machined in a rounded style (you can see the lip it makes in the pic), and the rear of the bolt tube, was machined smaller to match the tiny back block. A very nice surprise, which I believe is standard for all Martin conversions. The anno is flat out amazing. The pics show it sort of.. that is a steel grey/blue anno that is thick and even across the entire body and assorted parts. It is completely like nothing else I've ever seen, although if I _had_ to give you a point of reference, picture the old GZ timmy color, but polished, and a bit more blue.

The back block is aluminum, and milled down to the bare minimum. It does NOT have a lip to ride the back of the gun. The threaded part is off to the side, but seems to have enough "meat" left to them so as not to be a weak point.

The pump arm sent with the body is aluminum as well. It is match annoded to the body. (note this one is sized for the full size body)

The pullpin is entirely stainless, and is "chunky". Straight, with a flat end, and Stainless tip (all one piece)

The bolt has the same angled in port with the large exit opening. As mentioned, the input for this bolt is larger than the Turtle bolt, but the exit is smaller. The bolt here is snug in the breech - not excessively tight, it still moves freely, but there is DEFINATLY not going to be any blowback past the bolt here.

Here is a pic of the assorted back blocks, bolts, etc that come with the body conversions.

--Weight Comparisons--

As requested, I have done a weight comparison chart. Note that the Turtle is a mini-sized pump arm, and the Martin is a full size pump arm. I have also added the Slik weights for good measure (Slik/CompulsivePaintball Backblock, edge bolt, Pull pin, cocking rod, and a generic Full size Ti Pump arm):

All Weights in Grams from an electronic scale

	Back Block	Bolt	Pin	PumpArm	Cocking Rod (Slik Only)
Turtle	10.37gms	22.29gms	9.53gms	13.67gms
Martin	10.37gms	28.19gms	12.18gms	5.83gms
Slik	5.31gms	36.90gms	1.49gms	27.22gms	15.29

Totals reciprocating mass:
Turtle - 55.79gms
Martin - 56.57gms
Slik - 85.21gms

My belief is if the Martin was a mini-sized pump arm, there would be no difference in the mass of the Turtle and Martin.

In my opinion, either kit does what it is advertised to do. I believe that the Anno on the Turtle needs work, it shows a lack of QC on the annodiser's part, and I have heard of many people having similar problems. Hopefully Bob has addressed this. I also think that the Turtle would benefit by milling the body down a bit more during the conversion process - the entire kit is very chunky.. It still looks "boxy". The large delrin backblock is light, but the trade off is that they use a larger "chunk" to keep it structurally sound. The Martin is a much more "finished" looking kit, the additional milling, although slight, really adds a nice touch.